By . Because I do just that I have grown closer to the Savior and because I study scripture, I have more enlightenment and understanding of truth. Amazon.com: Eric J. Smith: Books, Biography, Blog, Audiobooks, Kindle Bruce R. McConkie 1915-1985. Receive ye, therefore, my law. In the Nauvoo period, Joseph Smith began believed in and secretly taught something akin to reincarnation. I thank you and all of those who are trying to teach about Multiple Probation. I have to be honest. thousands) of people I have personally heard from in emails, within the LDS This can be meant spiritually or physically this two sides mirror each other. WHY ONE of my sons and I have always said we CAME here with a testimony finally clicked and I feel so blessed because it isnt that easy for some to believe. (Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 Vols. Like Lehi who partook of the fruit of the tree of life and who immediately wanted to share it with his family, the fruits of the doctrine have been delicious to me, and I have also wanted to share it. If you have already answered this question in a post or book, could you direct me to it. The standard version of the sermon can be easily interpreted in this fashion. Even if I lived to be 100 years old I am quite certain I will not know everything God knows. More significantly, JS' King Follett Sermon suggests that, after the resurrection, each heir to Godhood will eventually serve as a Christ in a mortal probation. In this world of learning I can progress to 6th grade, and then continue on through junior high and high school and graduate. Eric, Thank you for sharing! Why the title and what needs to happen to have that title. The thrill is gone. Libraries. Apostle Lorenzo Snow said that "his sister, the late Eliza R. Snow Smith, was a firm believer in the principle of reincarnation and that she claimed to have received it from Joseph the Prophet, her husband." 1 Answer Sorted by: 4 Probation is an action taken by a church leader or council that limits some privileges of church membership. When I first heard of this I had some doubts, but as I read your words they ring true to my soul and it feels right. The answers are there if you seek them from the Lord and in His timing. That's the gist of it. When your book came out with Greg I was excited to read it and I did several times. And as this literally happens, every morning is a shadow of what will be in the long term of eternity. Multiple Probations is a beautiful doctrine. : And one lifetime is more than enough, if that lifetime lasts for eternity! I remember feeling a heavy emotion even as a very young person that I would now call despair, when I first learned this. I want to move forward and progress to the next grade. deep questions about the eternities and the knowledge satisfied our questions Im grateful you shared your experience here! In my experience the most important point of the discussion here, which I believe to be among earnest seekers of truth, is being lightly treated by those on this forum but clearly illustrated in your comment. These ware resurrected Bodies, Violated the Celestial laws. It indicates, "Click to perform a search". I love your island perspective, which I hadnt considered. Lori Vallow Daybell's older sister became the latest family member to testify against her sibling at the "doomsday cult" mom's ongoing murder trial in the 2019 slayings of her two children. Just think of the fun rides in life one could take though Ken! Is the idea of "Multiple Mortal Probations" doctrine? - Ask Gramps Unfortunately, the divine version of the doctrine has not, and may not soon receive the proper attention and audience it deserves. Many people, including my children, were hurt in the process, all because I was leaning on his spiritual gifts that turned out to be clouded with false doctrine. Thanks for your courage to share. After this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed. Thank you Eric. According to the Encyclopedia of Mormonism, as. Is it not so, surely? (Moses 1). Adam kindness from cruelty, and so on. Nor do I believe that a full understanding of Who I Am, in all the Eternal facets of my Being, qualifies me to take responsibility for doing Fathers work in somehow translating this knowledge to another. Harold, your thoughts and perspective are priceless. Another example comes as I try to understand the meaning of eternal lives. Multiple Mortal Probations Article - LDS Freedom Forum John 9:2 Either in this life or the life to come, they will return. Until I meet you. MARIA, Your email address will not be published. ", More significantly, JS' King Follett Sermon suggests that, after the resurrection, each heir to Godhood will eventually serve as a Christ in a mortal probation. and Eve could not know good from evil without partaking of both, which is One of the purposes of this book is to outline basic doctrines and explain how missionaries should teach them. This understanding of Multiple Probations, has validated and set my soul free of the ignorance. Progression for a time and then it is over just doesnt compute for me. Banned topics: 9:27. continue in the path until the end of the day of probation, 2 Ne. (Some received only Godhood.) Where is the fairness in that? about the doctrine, but it is important to me. May you find Him now. presence which left him fallen to the ground, he was able to declare to The doctrine of multiple probations felt natural and right to me as soon as I heard them. felt very final[i]. And we do have to think about possibilities, because eventually it leads to more firm answers, but we needn't think that every thing we think is automatically true. True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days idea as crazy or ridiculous. I believe that the greatest truths will be met with the greatest opposition. speaking, writing, arithmetic, or who have spiritual gifts such as being Single Probation Doctrine, and Mortal Experience. Thank you for the clarity youre bringing to this doctrine. I realized it was up to me to ask, seek, knock, learn and apply with or without him. I can choose to end my learning and education then or I have the agency to continue onto college and graduate school. I thought I had reached the bottom of the rabbit holeI guess it goes deeper still. myself that this doctrine is in fact, not necessary to know for my salvation, Lucifer, where is thyglory, that I should worship thee? clarity to the many dreams, visions, memories, and Deja vu experiences that Multiple Probations - A Divine Doctrine - Doctrinal Essays As I pondered the gravity of that situation seeing the effects of disobedience in other families and in my own I prayed asking Heavenly Father how he could let so many of His children fall and be cast off. I thought it was supposed to be turtles all the way down? I like cats better. I still struggle to understand my place in the eternitys. Denver Carlos Snuffer Jr. is a Utah lawyer, an author of Restorationist devotional books, a lecturer, a speculative theologian, and claims to be a "revelator to fellowships of the remnants movement," a spiritual movement in schism with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). Ill be looking forward to hearing more!!! against the adversary with greater fervor. Some awesome people have been excommunicated. "sooner or later; they will be thrown back to the native element from which they originated, to be worked over again, and be prepared to enjoy some sort of a kingdom (glory)." Hi Diane! Thanks for standing up and witnessing even amongst the risk of severe persecution. Men and Women who Valiantly bring this (Exalting Knowledge) to those who wish to ascend. There are many quotes of early LDS Church leaders who claimed the Prophet Joseph secretly taught a doctrine of multiple mortal probations. "when brother Pratt went back last fall, and published the Revelation concerning the plurality of wives; it was thought there was no other cat to let out. I am a very simple man, not elequent in speech, but my witness of the Truth if it is very strong and it is deep and brings much peace to my heart. Seems to me that there is as much evidence for this reincarnation doctrine as there is for the Heavenly Mother doctrine. Third, there were a lot of other early LDS, some apostles as well who lived closer in time and proximity to Joseph Smith who believed in "multiple mortal probations." As for the sealing question, I certainly believe that sealings are very important. We speak so easily about the baptism. multiple lives, which to me is practical and actually very simplistic in [i] Most Christians believe in the binary afterlife of heaven or hell. I do not believe I am alone in these sentiments. I highly recommend Multiple Probations: A Lost Doctrine Remembered by Eric Smith and Greg Christiansen, edited by Julie Rowe. So beautiful and strong words that I saw citated by you and Greg this dynamic of dying and be born again. Heavenly Father is very loving too help them through their next probation. I was always looked at with the eyes of (Oh Brother). Does the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints accept the - Quora . But allow me to tell you you may expect an eternity of cats, that have not yet escaped from the bag " BRIGHAM YOUNG, 1853. That being said I am personally bound by the admonition given in countless times and ways throughout scripture and most clearly in the Doctrine and Covenants 63: 64. These secret teachings coincided with teachings by Joseph that either explicity stated or implied that previously resurrected beings, essentially from a prior earth, could interact with mortals on this earth. Multiple mortal probations - MormonWiki.org LDS church on Gilgul or multiple mortal probations Chad Daybell's strange end-times beliefs are not Mormon theology, says So. They are those who openly came into the presence of Christ and openly rejected what Christ is offering. I welcome it! "And also they who are quickened by a portion of the telestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness. Here's another one from the New Testament people use to support reincarnation: The doctrine of multiple probations again increases my understanding of eternal lives. But what is meant spiritually can be read in a physical way too. Most Mormons don't even know about this rule. Joseph Smith and multiple mortal probations - Reincarnation Forum When I first came upon Julies podcasts and heard the messages, including MMP. Without these contrasting experiences and emotions, I can seeJoseph Smith easily deriving reincarnation from several passages in the New Testament. Well done, Eric. Answered: Choose one innovative idea the Church | bartleby The Thank you, I have been pondoring over weather I should share this, by no means am I a visionary like Julie and many others but on December 7th 2018 my Dad passed away at 100 yrs and 4months, my fathers passing opened up a portal to a degree that allowed me to communicate in a small way with those in the Spirit Word, what transpired startled me at first but the experience lasted for weeks. idea that a person would live their life on earth and then be permanently In the light of the son every person is getting a form, visible to everyone around as they are becoming visible themselves the darkness will fadeas only the light has the power to vanish the darkness. My heart is full . I thank you! I love our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and I know He loves me. Besides the Laub's record of JS' comment on the Holy Ghost in his summary of the Sermon on the Grove, there is an additional JS comment recorded by Franklin D. Richards in August, 1843, not that long before the King Follett Sermon. But there is some mystery here. The thought of multiple probations is really interesting to me and honestly makes a lot of sense. Also, I didn't mention it in the OP, but I believe Michael Quinn documents an influential relationship between JS and Alexander Neibaur, who was a convert from Jewish Cabala and who related reincarnation-like Cabala sourced ideas in a couple of Times and Seasons articles during the Nauvoo era. In my experience the most important point of the discussion here, which I believe to be among earnest seekers of truth, is being lightly treated by those on this forum but clearly illustrated in your comment. Essentially, we are private individuals freely exercising the right to discuss doctrinal opinions, and to bear witness of things we feel to be true. I'm not going to do anything drastic, but, goodness gracious! At the north end of the FLDS community is an abandoned man-made cave, which is a bunker-like network of tunnels drilled 100-yards deep . I do not believe I am alone in these sentiments. Officially, Mormons are supposed to be almost entirely vegetarian. When is lds general conference 2023 - rsizm.sabines-berner.de but it is necessary to know in the context of my exaltation. I have not ever been constrained by The Spirit to speak in ways that invite others to look to me for the answers that must only come from Father. In my opinion Alma 5 and Alma 12, in their entirety, are both worthy of consideration along side many other scriptures that follow a pattern which is familiar to me. Email from me is very sparse. I like your point about second chances for wayward souls. That phrase indeed feels appropriate for the version of The new day starts at a moment no one can see very much (its a kind of a hope). man. ABC News. Laub wrote, "For we are to go from glory to glory and as one is raised to a higher, so the next under him may take his degree and so to take the exaltation through the regular channel. May God bless you too. The Probationary Test of Mortality - LDS Scripture Teachings There is a real fear of being labeled an apostate for believing these messages and for even having had my own experiences. I can only answer that through study, prayer, fasting, and a fair amount of grief, I have paid the price to know. For behold, I have troubled them throughout their lives. version of the doctrine has been aired publicly, I am concerned that too many We all have to die to go further. 13:38. Thank you, Gregory! Perhaps the clearest example of this is a statement recorded by Nauvoo saint, George Laub. Adam-God can then be seen as based on JS' teachings and the endowment, with a simple fundamental misunderstanding on the identity of Micheal in the Godhead. The pursuit of the souls perfection seems somehow lighter, brighter, and more assuredly attainable. principle, it is not important to know. It suggests that we find ourselves in endless cycles of creation, living and dying over and over, learning and progressing, ascending the ladder step-by-step until we eventually "get it right." D&C 132:22-25 can easily be interpreted that way: 22For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me. Under the doctrine of multiple probations it makes it fair that those without the . The Church Has a Bunker-Like Network of Tunnels. But my mother died recently and the idea of her in another probation feels a bit heartbreaking. This concept found me. However, Laub didn't only understand that the Holy Ghost would serve as a Christ (more on that later), but he also implied that JS' King Follet Sermon taught that all who achieved Godhood would pass through the same. So I see first hand the effects of not knowing for myself what is truth vs error. It challenged some of their traditional Christian beliefs. For others, it has given meaning and It has been referred to many times in this essay and the comments as doctrine. They will have to pay their debt to justice; they will suffer for their sins; and may tread a thorny path; but if it leads them at last, like the penitent Prodigal, to a loving and forgiving fathers heart and home, the painful experience will not have been in vain.. Michael Quinn documented it as follows: By the time of his death in 1844, Joseph Smith had also reversed his prior rejection of the Cabala's doctrine of "transmigration of the souls." Thats kind of you to say. Mahalo. Are Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow Really Mormons? He had enough problems with plural marriage and the law of Consecration. I love you all and am thankful for the puzzle piece of truth each of you has to offer in my journey. There is just too much to experience for once to be enough. The purpose was not to claim that it is the doctrine of the Church, as we have no authority in that regard. Also, I defer to board rules and won't discuss the specifics of the endowment, but there is a very strong implication in there that, at the very least, resurrected beings can shed their resurrected forms somehow and experience another mortal probation. Joseph Smith and Multiple Mortal Probations - Page 7 - General Joseph Smith and Multiple Mortal Probations, Apologetics, Law (not licensed), Reading (Re: 2nd Coming of Late), Writing (Published: Deseret News, SL Trib, New Era, Utah Peace Officer), http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/movies/shirley-maclaine-tells-film-set-stories-line-article-1.2545803. They also vicariously ordained Joseph and Hyrum to do the same. When I hear the term applied to people other than Jesus I immediately think of Mosiah 15 and not MMP. Documents sent by Chad Daybell reveal so-called 'past lives' of Lori Vallow My only doubt was in me and the ability to live the gospel of Jesus Christ. Kabbalism, especially the sort in 12th century Spain that produced the Zohar and so forth is a thoroughgoing Platonic conception of Judaism. Multiple Mortal Probations - The True and Living Church of Jesus Christ Is she the main source? I do hope this doctrine gives you and your family the hope you need. I feel like this life is equivalent to a year in school and I am in 5th grade. Oh how I love you and Julie and all that I have learned from you both!! Multiple Probations answers that question. Praise God and Praise the Lord! Serve. The Folly of Multiple Mortal Probations - BOOK OF MORMONISM I just dont see how being promised we can be together forever, and being reborn in another life, and probably sealed to someone else fit together. You know Eric its interesting to me how much i have loved James Allen for so many years and how you were also inspired by him. I will ponder about it and ask Heavenly Father. Alaris Not once, has this doctrine pulled me away from the gospel, as many false prophets and their teachings aim to achieve. Thank you again for bringing more clarity of the Great Plan to light. http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/movies/shirley-maclaine-tells-film-set-stories-line-article-1.2545803. I was drawn to him because of these gifts that he freely shared with me. JS taught many times that Michael stood next to Christ in authority, and he also taught that Elohim was the head of the Gods (i.e. Even more than that I feel that spirit of truth in my heart that it is true. Regarding Chad and Lori's "multiple probations" - Reddit Well what did the Father do? I met an individual who had seen me on one of those probationary Earths. Im glad you feel that way Kendall. it is hard to accept ideas that have not been touted over pulpits or publicized The fact there is no scripture or officially declared doctrine stating multiple mortal probations is false is absolutely an evidence in the doctrine's favor. There are stages before and stages after, and one may indeed move in the cyclic spiral, but not in repetition and not in a circle. ("Scriptural Items," F. D. Richards, August 27, 1843 . Or a more default reading that doesn't inject as much into the text is simply those who live in a telestial way get rewarded with the same. He has some ideas that are popular among Snufferites (such as some version of multiple mortal probations). How can eternal progression happen in one lifetime on this earth. My niece is a Medium, and she mentioned something like this happening when we go to the other side. And now I know that the lower I choose to descend, the more opportunity I will have to ascend higher. It answers many of my questions, How could a god (Lucifer) fall from grace, how could the Savior become who he was in one lifetime, how could I ever make it to the celestial kingdom if my partner wasnt willing to live the gospel. 10 Crazy Little-Known Rules of Mormon Life - Listverse It j u s t makes sense. It has been reported by those who knew the first prophet of the church that he was at least at one. Thanks for your kind thoughts Traci, and for your believing heart. He claimed, like so many others to have had an out-of-body experience. News. I believe in this doctrine and am excited to continue to receive further light and knowledge. In other words we might live on this earth multiple times before we are finally resurrected . I have learned for My understanding is that much of the MMP arose out of the infusion of spiritualism in Utah as Saints primarily from England immigrated. 2:307 or TPJS, pp. Should you want a space where you can harangue, belittle, mock, and incite people to contention for their deeply held, sacred beliefs then by all means create some forums with your own rules. Some may ask why I or anyone else have been privileged to learn of these doctrines while others have not. As is common knowledge, the trio of beings who participate in the creation in the temple are Michael, Jehovah, and Elohim, and these possibly represent JS' conception of the Godhead. Knowing myself well enough to know that I would never have agreed to such a thing knowing my own weaknesses all too well..and having been able to learn from on high many amazing things in temple service..i began to question the plan as it was being taught every sunday..my questions as a spiritually gifted woman were met mostly with disdain amidst the patriarchy and toxic perfectionism of many members through no fault of their own but through false Traditions that have been passed down and incomplete doctrines. And a gate symbolizes a new aera of time. That one would be tempted to say this life is just too hard. Orson Pratt apparently wasn't in on it or hadn't understood it as others had. Thank you for visiting and commenting Anna. [6] When we get to where Jesus is, he will be just as far ahead of us again in exaltation." It is particularly comforting to realize that I can let go of the worry and anxiety of wayward children who have struggled to stay on the path, that this doctrine provides the hope that there is plenty of time, if they chooseto move forward in their ( or my own) progression. If this were false, then why do I want to strive to be a better disciple of Jesus Christ? God bless you for speaking truth. D&C 132 on the other hand was dictated in 1843, prime time for this topic. . to use samsung voice input you need to allow the appear on top permission in settings s21 It is so obvious and even though hidden. What a great man and prophet he was. The main topics are the levels, or ladder, of eternal progression and the end times servant otherwise known as the Davidic Servant. Exactly Geri! I always look forward to your writings and know you speak truth. Thank you for this essay, you have a way of expressing your thoughts and knowledge so eloquently and with so much clarity. If mortal probations, then individuals get better opportunity. Melanie Gibb Says Chad Daybell Was Doing 'Satan's Work' | Law & Crime I know who you and I were in the past and I cannot wait to meet you in person. What follows is a thesis on the controversial doctrine from the 19th century referred to as multiple mortal probations, which fell out of favor along with Adam-God. the doctrine that has circulated these recent events. Multiple Mortal Probation Archives - Latter-day Commentary Thank you sincerely for sharing this with us! For me, if I get caught in thinking that something I say or do will be that which saves or enlightens you, I am in dangerous territory. Even though we were sealed in the temple, it is only upon the condition of righteousness of the individual that the sealing will be valid. Ever since first hearing the doctrine of Multiple Mortal Probations, I have felt peace in this knowledge. The Seven Deadly Heresies | Bruce R. McConkie | BYU Speeches However this is no profound than all cows participating in the form of cowness for Platonists. Promised wives, seed without number, be full partaker with Abraham, Isaac., and Jacob. This process answers many other gospel centered questions. This thesis explains a bunch of odd data points and suggests a straightforward explanation for the origin of Adam-God. He was a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. . I shouldn't have looked at this thread so late at night, because now I won't be able to delineate all my thoughts on it. It's very hard, if not impossible, to establish causation. I believe even to the point that if I see an extra dark effort to oppose something then it must be very significant. The seriousness, the risk, and the glories of mortal life are undercut the moment one supposes he will have a million or more subsequent probations of the same sort. Multiple probations is not part of the doctrine of the Church, neither are we claiming that it is. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. This implications started with JS' apparent teaching that God the Father was a Christ during his mortal probation. Do you have a direct link? knowledge for personal advantage is repulsive and would be a mockery of what I 8 of the Most Bizarre Mormon Beliefs - Purpose in Christ James J. Strang - Mormonism, The Mormon Church, Beliefs, & Religion I do have a question though. Thanks, as always, this is very well thought out and written. February 28, 2017 in General Discussions. I have nothing to add but simply following the conversation. I am viewed as someone who dares to imply that I have had experiences and spiritual gifts other than just being led by the spirit through thoughts and ideas. Hi. Shapes and forms can not be seen, but you can hear, sense and feel things Sometimes it seems to be the part of the day where one is in despairBut at that point, where no light can be seen the new day is already beginningSometimes it feels like only the hope of the rising sun (son) will carry you to the first sunbeam And when the sun or the son, as you call it, starts rising there come new possibilities or perspectives along.