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I would note that of those three things the Springfield Saint 300blk has only the first. It wasnt the precision love fest I envisioned. Its also moving considerably slower from the get-go, though, and experiences more bullet drop as a result. Re: 300 blackout cycling issue???? by jFlacoS Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:59 am, Post Group size was halved to a respectable measurement of around 2 inches. The Hornady Full Metal Jacket Frontier 300 Blackout ammo is their value target practice cartridge, but since its Hornady its more than good enough for classes and competition. Reloading .300 Blackout: Must-Have Materials | An Official Journal Of Not sure how to make sure the gas port is properly aligned. It should be no surprise then that 300 Blackout ammo excels here as well. To be honest I will probably shoot the gun suppressed 90% of the time anyway. Why Your 300 AAC Blackout AR15 Isn't Running / Cycling Is there anything else to do other than open up the gas port? With the 210-grain Berger VLD Target handload, four of the 10 rounds were above the speed of sound even after reducing the powder charge. The subsonic 300 Blackout loads are often compared to 45 ACP, 10 mm or 9mm subsonic rounds. It would work well for defense and tactical applications; the bullet's bonded construction would help it hold together when encountering a barrier. I first viewed the 300 Blackout with a jaundiced eye, but it's proving to be one heck of an effective, close-range hog sweeper. My personal experience mirrors this. I tried this for several rounds with the same thing each time. At 400 yards, though, the bullet has dropped almost 5 feet. It should work reliably when using low-powered (subsonic) or high-powered (supersonic) ammo with or without a suppressor. This showcases the dual purpose of the round. Its more powerful than 5.56 ammo when shooting subsonic (quiet) bullets. A big part of the attraction to having .300 Blackout is to put a silencer on it and feel super operator pew-pewing subsonic ammo. Imagine that your cars engine has died and you need to push it down the road. You see where this is going, dont you? A cartridge load for 16-inch barrels with slightly less gunpowder to keep the velocity under the speed of sound when fired out of longer-barreled rifles. This bullet was purpose-built by Nosler for the .300 Blackout and the .30 Rem. (At my location the speed of sound was about 1,143 fps on the test date.) Theres one key difference between hunting ammo and home defense ammo. Keep your gear handy when it's not on your belt. At bottom, bullets damage things, people, and animals by transferring energy to them. As the name implies, overpenetration refers to when a bullet passes through or misses your intended target and then continues on to hit something you didnt intend to shoot. So, who is right? I used load data from Hodgdon and Accurate, but my first attempt yielded supersonic velocities. Ballistics data gives you a means of comparing one cartridge to another so that you can tease out their strengths and weaknesses and decide which one is the best choice for different jobs. When combined with a suppressor, 300 Blackout ammo can give you one of the most powerful, nearly silent rifles you can have. The point is that if you are going to choose a rifle sized weapon, you ought to use ammunition that can do rifle sized work. Apparently, the story goes that an unnamed special missions unit in the U.S. Army asked for a round that could fit inside a .30-caliber rifle, and would be usable with any AR weapon. You see, just because all of the gunpowder in a cartridge is burned doesnt mean that increasing the barrel length doesnt offer any benefits. The military was interested in this kind of performance for clandestine operations, I assume. by 20X11 Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:19 am, Post The aluminum nose of the Lehigh Defense bullet also helps it feed into the chamber better than many hollow point designs. Thats not an issue with 300 Blackout ammo, though. Best of all, it was designed from the ground up to work in Americas favorite riflethe AR-15with only a quick change of the barrel required to shoot it. If you want to use subsonic ammo for classes, then go with their Hornady A-MAX Black subsonic ammo. Instead, you want the bullet to enter the target, transfer all of its energy and lethal force to the person, and stop inside them without flying out the other side. It's probably just the block shifted out of place. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. Next, I tested terminal performance by firing each load into blocks of 10-percent ordnance gelatin. It works well with supersonic ammo. I was shocked. Even worse is when a combine that harvests grain needs a part only made in China. Hornady is known for being more or less the top dog of quality ammunition. Due to the bullets light weight, its able to reach a muzzle velocity of 2,800 fpsalmost as fast as a 5.56 and much faster than standard 300 Blackout ammo. Increasing it from 8 inches to 16 inches, though, might only result in a 20% increase in muzzle energy. Their higher B.C. Shooters are making multiple kills of the crop raiders before the herd can disburse. Summary: Subsonic 300 Blackout is significantly more powerful than subsonic 5.56, 9mm, and even .308, which makes a 300 Blackout rifle one of the most powerful nearly Hollywood quiet rifles you can have. by 20X11 Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:59 pm, Post Magtech Full Metal Jacket Subsonic 200-grain 300 Blackout, Magtech Full Metal Jacket Supersonic 123-grain 300 Blackout. Itll reliably kill deer, hogs, and people within those ranges, too. Summary: Unlike 5.56 or .223 Remington, 300 Blackout ammo is highly effective and legal for deer hunting in all almost every state. Failure to Launch? The 300 Blackout shooter is getting 30-30 performance with about one-third the powder and slightly less recoil. For example, a 55-grain 5.56 bullet bullet traveling just under the speed of sound1,050 fpsonly has 135 ft.lbf. If your rifle is like mine, there's a fine line on getting it to work. The vast majority of states, though, including my native Virginia, dont allow you to shoot deer with 5.56 ammo, which presents a problem: How can you use your beloved AR-15 to go deer hunting? Why there are More Supply Chain Problem in our Future It will eject the spent brass, but not pickup a new round. The RCBS Primer Pocket Swaging tool will correct this, but taking care of the issue is a time-consuming affair. Had problems with cycling both. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. When youre looking for plinking and practice ammo, a good rule of thumb is to look for the absolute cheapest ammo possible, and then go with whatever is slightly more expensive than that. Ive gotten quite a few emails from shooters with experiences mirroring mine. If you were to keep pushing on the car, thoughnot necessarily pushing any harder but pushing on the car for longerthen it would gather even more speed and move even further. We have to pick a number, though, so lets run with the Hornady Sub-X Subsonic 190-grain bullets, which have a ballistics coefficient of 0.437which is probably close to the average for subsonic 300 Blackout bullets. It's usually the shorties - under 10" - that need the can to cycle with subs. The 300 Blackout has become one of the most popular rifle cartridges available. The same thing happens on a smaller scale inside the barrel of a gun. One Guy's Issues with a Springfield Saint in 300 BLK -300BlkTalk It can be used in AR-15s with minimal modification. Short Barrel 338 Lapua Magnum Load Development Results, 300 BLK load development: 125, 135, 175 and 220 SMK with H110 and IMR 4227, Accuracy testing a 16 carbine: Daniel Defense Hammer Forged Barrel, Refreshing a poorly machined Remington 700 action, 223 Remington/5.56 NATO, velocity versus barrel length: A man, his chop box and his friends rifle, Replacing a plastic recoil pad on a shotgun, USMC M40A5 Build- Part 3: Receiver Truing, Fortune Favors The Brave.Even When Outnumbered, Customizing the 1911: countersink and flush cut slide stop pin, 6 Creedmoor barrel length versus muzzle velocity (31 to 17 inches). One ftlbf is equal to about 1.355 J, and its the amount of energy it takes to raise one pound by one foot. The ballistics coefficient of the bullet, which you can use to determine how much energy it will lose as it travels to the target. If your first priority is subsonic performance from a .30-caliber AR, go with the .300 AAC Blackout and heavy bullets. Some people question whether or not the 300 Blackout is effective for killing deer, and the simple answer is, yesabsolutely. That's including two dismal groups caused by the inability to taper-crimp Nosler bullets. What if you prefer to hunt with subsonic 300 Blackout ammo fired through a suppressed rifle? A battery of .300 BLK owners might experience perfect functioning of 5.56 NATO/.223 magazines with their .300 BLK firearms, while others may bellow about their woes and despair. It can penetrate through more material (walls, trees, people . Click the Go To Forum Thread link below to jump in and discuss this article and much more! Thanks for the help. P.S. As this bullet penetrates into someone the aluminum nose of the bullet is pushed back into the copper base. Springfield Armory recommends you seek qualified and competent training from a The 3 Best 300 Blackout Uppers You Can Buy - American Arms So while some of us have chased after .300 BLK for its usefulness in hunting medium-size game, potentially defense, or even for the recreational enjoyment of the round, its safe to say that we will all experience more pleasurable range time with a dedicated .300 BLK magazine for our .300 BLK firearms. 300 blackout cycling issue???? - Sniper's Hide Forum Here are the Best .300 blackout rifles (Our Picks) 1. 10.5g it functions but doesn't keep the bolt open. With a 16" barrel and mid length gas system it 'should' be able to cycle using subsonic ammo even without a can. More powerful, hard-hitting, and deadlier than 5.56/.223 (AR-15) ammo, Hollywood quiet when fired through a suppressor, The perfect all-rounder cartridge for plinking at the range, home defense, and hunting, Its good but not as good as other ammostick with what youve got., Its just a novelty cartridge that will fade away like the fad it is., No one in the military uses it and neither should you., Everything you need to know about 300 Blackout ballistics, How the 300 Blackout compares to the 5.56, What the ideal barrel length is for shooting 300 Blackout. While the barrel and bolt of an AR-15 are tailormade to only shoot 5.56/.223 ammo, the rest of the gun is more or less cartridge agnostic. Should I take out 2 weights or clip his spring a couple coils? The reason why a dedicated .300 BLK magazine is so crucial is because of the wide grain weight range .300 BLK works in. Some people even go so far as to say that anything longer than a 9-inch barrel for a 300 Blackout is a complete waste of space and weight. . The muzzle energy, which is the energy of a bullet just after it leaves the barrel of a gun. And all you have to do to shoot 300 Blackout is buy a 300 Blackout upper, slap it on your existing AR-15, load up your regular AR-15 magazines, and start shooting. The gun cycles and the bolt goes back into the fully closed position, but does not put another round in the chamber. In 2011 AAC filed with SAAMI so the 300 Blackout could be chambered and loaded by anyone. I dont have comments enabled on this site, to discuss this post, feel free to comment on it there. In case you arent familiar with the term, plinking refers to more or less randomly shooting at stuff for fun, in a safe manner. The bolt will not lock back with an empty mag. None of the primers in Lehigh Defense brass were crimped, but all of them in the Federal brass were crimped. Second, theres the fact that this bullet causes a lot more damage than a hollow point 5.56. And other states like Montana, North Carolina, and Vermont dont care what the hell you shoot animals with. You may discover published data will generate supersonic loads, and you may need to reduce powder charges to ensure each bullet remains subsonic. Do you care about your Second Amendment rights? Snipers Hide is a community of Snipers of all kinds, focusing on long range shooting, accuracy, and ballistics. All else being equal, you want your bullet to retain as much energy as possible by the time it hits your target. I have tried a lighter weight buffer as well. The 5.56 bullet disintegrated after penetrating only a few boards, whereas the 300 Blackout stayed intact as it sliced through every single board in this test. And, because 300 Blackout bullets are pointed instead of flat-nosed or round-nosed like 30-30 bullets, they are more efficient, more aerodynamic. The muzzle is threaded 5/8"-24 to accept muzzle brakes, flash hiders, or a suppressor. The rounds cycle smoothly by hand so I don't think that is the issue. One problem with many subsonic 300 Blackout cartridges is that theyre loaded with enough gunpowder to achieve maximum subsonic velocityabout 1,050 fpsout of a 16-inch barrel. To learn more about the 7,62x40WT click here. Why? Its more expensive ($1.4 most places), but its some of the most accurate subsonic 300 Blackout ammo you can find. .300 Blackout (BLK) vs. 5.56: What's Best For You? Some of the add-ons on this site are powered by, http://micromoa.com/300-blk-port-size-testing/, http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=86656. I am using reloaded ammo (220 gr jacketed) and have shot thru a chronograph at about 1050 fps. The easiest solution is to use a special bullet thats designed not to overpenetrate such as a lightweight hollow point or frangible bullet. In fact at the 300-yard mark your typical 68-77 gr .223 round will be delivering more energy than that 300-Blackout/Whisper round . Bullets with more drop arent inherently less accurate, per se, but the more a bullet drops, the more skill is required to adjust for this so that the bullet hits where intended. You can expect to pay anywhere from $1.5 to $3 per round for high-quality subsonic 300 Blackout hollow points. Once you start trying to do other things with the 300 BLK, better options emerge. Though I had used the 110-grain Speer Deep Curl for plinking quite a bit, I had never tested its terminal performance before this project. . Although the velocity variation did nothing for accuracy, this load was still more accurate than every factory subsonic offering except one. Jones of SSK Industries in the 1990s as part of his Whisper series of cartridges based on the 221 Fireball. This is why theyve become popular for home defensetheres no risk of overpenetration. Ballistics is the science of projectiles and firearms. Spending less than this will likely give you ammo that isnt accurate enough, and spending more than that is likely overkill for competition and classes. The second a bullet leaves the muzzle of a gun, gravity begins pulling it toward the ground. In the case of home defense, the main concern is the bullet either missing or passing through your wouldbe assailant, and hitting a loved one in another room, flying through the wall and hitting someone next door, blowing away the neighbors dog, or all of the above. Eotech solved this problem when they created the dual zeroed XPS2-300 for the 300 Blackout caliber in both super and subsonic. After a second or two, youre pushing as hard as you possibly canyour powder has been completely burnedand you cant exert any more force on the car. And to take things a step further, what if you want to hunt animals like deer, hogs, or even elk with 300 Blackout? PRESCRIPTION 1Bullet: 110-grain Sierra HPPowder/Charge: Hodgdon Lil'Gun, 20.0 grainsPrimer: Federal Small RifleCartridge Overall Length: 1.89 inchesMuzzle Velocity: 2,402 fps. The more energy a bullet imparts to a target, the more damage it causes, and the likely it is to kill someone or destroy something. This matters because in most home defense or combat scenarios, you arent going to have a good shot at your enemy. If you're looking for a multi-purpose load for the .300 AAC Blackout, this may be the best bullet. I will try some other loads and see if I can keep sub and still cycle. It should be equally or more powerful than the 7.6239 cartridge (AK-47 ammo) when fired from 9-inch barrel. 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You will increase the muzzle energy of the bullet, but each additional inch of barrel beyond 9 inches results in less and less of an increase in muzzle energy. After testing 11 currently available .300 AAC Blackout factory loads, I came to a couple conclusions. As deer ammo goes, thats slow, but only 200 fps slower than the old 30-30. Discussion about rifles in 300 AAC BLACKOUT (7.62x35mm), hosted by the creator of the cartridge. I know Noveske makes good products, but maybe you got an out-of-spec barrel. Are you running a can with your subsonic and are the subs factory or handloads? There are two things you can do to increase a bullets energy on target: In general, the best way to increase the muzzle energy of a bullet is to fire it through a longer barrel. One notable newcomer to the world of premium hunting ammunition is Discreet Ballistics. For example, the absolute cheapest you can get 300 blackout is generally around 50 cents per round, so expect to play closer to 60 to 75 cents per round for your everyday practice ammo. Most barrel makers and benchrest shooters will tell you the best accuracy for a given bullet is obtained with a twist rate that just stabilizes the bullet. Click here to find out. The recovered diameter (RD) was measured in inches across the face of the bullet in two spots and represents the average of those two measurements. Thats enough of a drop to seriously affect your accuracy when shooting at a target 100 yards away. If you do decide to join the dark side and try 300 Blackout, make sure you come back here and let me know what you think of it! Using a Magpul magazine again as our example, they deploy a distinct rib design and smoother upper-half texture this provides the shooter a distinct visual and tactile difference from any other PMAG to mitigate dangerous cross-loading issues.. In the case of 300 Blackout, you either . . The only downside of these cartridges is the cost$1.8 per roundwhich makes it expensive to practice with this ammo. What barrel and gas tube length? Heres a fun example of this principle in action: Thats a .50 BMG punching through three cinder blocks, and the reason its able to pull this off is because its an extremely heavy bullet moving very fast. As a general rule, then, you want bullets to maintain as much of their velocity as possible. With. AAC rigorously tested a variety of designs to make sure it perfectly fit standard AR-15 magazines, fed into the gun, and fired without a hitch. So, instead of continuing to beat this horse, lets look at how the 300 Blackout compares to the 5.56 in terms of muzzle energy. We were even close for a . As youll learn later in this article, while this does make rifles much easier to use in confined spaces, it also neuters the power of the 5.56 cartridge. The basis of their argument is that you want your rifle to have a barrel thats just long enough for all of the gunpowder to burn, and no longer. If you like Rifleshooter.com, please follow us on Facebook. Later, I wondered if it was possible to do something with supersonic handloads that would change the game. . Register today and take advantage of membership benefits.