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over 30 years and thousands of repairs we have redone 3 for pain The last was 2 weeks ago and already he is pain free. Im 60 and 511 @ 180lbs, so not overweight and in good health. If I had an unhappy patient who did not want to have surgery with me again, I would refer them on for a second opinion. It you want a manicure, a pedicure, an espresso in the pre op room and general pampering go to a Beverly Hills clinic; This place is all about a lasting repair at a reasonable price (my bill was much less than the initial quote) with minimal fuss, and, critically, NO MESH. A: The Shouldice repair is named after Dr. Edward Earle Shouldice (1890-1965), the Canadian surgeon who invented the technique in the 1940s. Ive had mine for years (think its due to c section surgery or pregnancy) Three surgeries at two different facilities using different techniques by no means expertise in either technique. Most patients I know of that go to Shouldice go there specifically for the expert all-tissue repair, the classic old fashioned hernia repair sutured with their own tissues. Very good points Tony! Once youre admitted to the hospital, youll meet other hernia patients. It is very painful to walk, stand, cough, sneeze, laugh, use the washroom in any capacity and expect from the bruising that this will carry on for atleast another week. The nursing staff was a mixed bag, as would be expected anywhere. No-show patients cost around $200 per unused time slot, and the average no-show rate for most U.S. practices hovers around 20%. Have had it checked and been informed that it is not at the point where a repair is required. There are days I literally cannot walk. Sonesta Suites355 South Park Road, Thornhill, ON L3T 7W21-800-SONESTA1-800-766-3782. I dont want to come off too confrontational but I am going to be blunt. I have just been chastised online for daring to criticize the Shouldice clinic on Twitter. I would suspect you will look back at the experience with a fondness when it is all over even I also drove up both times. Well keep in touch every year and offer you an opportunity to have your hernia repair checked and monitored by our surgeons. Many of these services are provided free to our patients. Without insurance, an open hernia surgery is easily $20,000+ if not more in the states. Staff is helpful but not pleasant or friendly. Unfortunately it did not adequately control for risk factors known to be associated with recurrence, including obesity. When I went for my pre-op. It is nice to have met your surgeon before any surgical procedure though. No public hospital in Ontario would be keeping groin hernia repair patients in hospital overnight without some underlying compelling reason. Shouldice Hospital Hospital #1 of 506 Facility in Thornhill, Ontario 3 Doctors Call Clinic View Map & Address Unavailable Ratings Doctors Top Facilities in Thornhill, ON Shouldice Hospital #1 of 506 Sunlight Dental Clinic #2 of 506 Matlis Medical, Urgent Walk-in Clinic, Sports Medicine Clinic #3 of 506 Grandview Dental Care #4 of 506 When you come to Shouldice, you can expect to have a positive and pleasant experience. I will continue to recommend the Shouldice and feel it was the right choice for me. All three were done by general surgeons, and I can honestly say I would have been better off not getting any surgeries from the beginning. My biggest concern with the Shouldice clinic is that you might get a very experienced surgeon, or you might get a surgeon that is quite inexperienced (relative to the rest of the staff). shouldice clinic wait times. We know that asking patients about their satisfaction with their care has nothing to do with the quality of care provided. We have provided this list as a courtesy to our patients and their guests. Surely theres an advantage to exclusive, specialized hernia repairs that general surgery wouldnt necessarily encompass? Shouldice Hospital is not responsible for these services. They do this to improve success rates (which of course patients want too) to reduce fat in the tissues which, I imagine you know but others might not, is a factor with or without mesh. Laparoscopic repairs are reported to have the lowest occurrence of chronic pain in the papers that I read. They do not have to do emergency general surgery, ever, how convienient. He did get a cyst in his rear about 2 1/2 years ago, the surgeon offered to take a look. The more you weigh and the more weight you gain after hernia repair, the more your risk of recurrence rises. An article I just read after using your suggested search term called Inguinal Hernias: A Current Review of an Old Problem mentions recurrence rate at a specialized center (Shouldice hospital) being 0.7% to 1.7%, but Shouldice technique done at a general hospital with a general surgeon was as high as 15%. The Shouldice procedure was learned from personal observation at the Shouldice Clinic, a book, 9 and instructional articles. Please call 905-695-4911 to book a time. Shouldice Hospital was established in 1945 by Dr. Edward Earle Shouldice (1890-1965), inventor of the Shouldice repair. I am also not a fan of the idea of Centres of Excellence. The idea that high volumes of doing one thing only makes you better at it. We have just reviewed 400 consecutive patients from 4 years ago and our recurrence rate is 2%. I had researched the different techniques and decided I would rather have small surface area non-magnetic stainless steel sutures vs a plastic mesh. We go to physicians expecting a solution to a problem, expecting, sometimes, an unreasonable outcome, expecting physicians to be more than human, expecting them to always do the right thing. They do the surgery anyways. There is some evidence that using generalistsis a cheaper, better way to run a health care system and I believe that. My experience was extremely positive and I would not hesitate to return there. Our current career opportunities are outlined below. If you need help to lose weight before your operation, one of our surgeons will refer you to our diet counselling services during your initial examination or you can contact them directly at (905) 695-4914. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2727805/. We are currently accepting patients in our Examination Clinic by appointment or limited walk-ins on a first-come, first-served basis. .One year after this major Shouldice surgery in MAJOR pain EVERY day and night I NOW look like a fucking mutant due to their amazing technique over there at Shouldice and to no email at least 15 trips back there and numerous emergency visits and NO family doctor. Also, they dont just do simple hernia surgeries on skinny people. I had my hernia repaired there on Nov 2nd. It is important that you are not carrying excess weight around your abdomen. No referral is required. The Shouldice Hospital has been a family-run private enterprise since its founding in 1945 by Dr. Edward Shouldice, who developed a reliable technique for repairing hernias during World War II.. The Shouldice clinic is a good example of that. Very interesting and enlightening article for a soon-to-be operated-on groin-hernia sufferer like me. I did have some minor discomfort around the surgical sit, but nothing that I felt was an issue. Dr. Shouldice developed his innovative technique during World War II, to help young men who were unable to enlist in the military because of their hernias. And it really annoys surgeons, including me. If I could go back Id take my chances on reoccurance hands down. . Chronic disabling pain which needs ongoing pain medication and/or other management (including mesh removal in the most severe cases) is thankfully extremely rare after groin hernia repair, be it with or without mesh. Your comment/reply from January 25, 2016 AT 11:14 PM says: for the vast majority of patients they will be aware if their repair, or have to take medications for it., I am guessing that you probably meant:they will NOT be aware OF their repair, or have to take medications for it.. You dont know till you try it if it is going to help or not. In any case my husbands case is exactly the kind of many complicationes hernia that you are talking about although all his many failed hernias and the fistula repair that involved having a large part of his bowl removed were done at major hospitals. Very interesting. The Shouldice Clinic is a private clinic operating in the Toronto area which has been open for decades. Ive tried this though for me personally, it made it worse for me so they are leaning towards it rubbing on my nerves. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. If I was doing only one operation, the only thing I would be is bored. My hernia was considerably large and very uncomfortable (both surgeons recommended it get repaired soon as it was quite large and at risk for obstruction in the future) in fact, I was no longer able to play sports anymore. The issue is really about the size of the facial defect vs the risk of recurrence with and without mesh. 6 Strategies for Managing Customer Wait Times 1. Tell me about it..I had an accident at work. The data we need are the rates for chronic pain which is very hard to come across for any of these techniques. We joked about standing by the front door and dropping our pjamas for the new intake. Naturally I did not wait and had a laparoscopic mesh insertion operation in November in one of the major hospitals around the GTA. Shouldice Inguinal Hernia Repair Post-op Instructions Surgery You have just undergone surgery to repair an inguinal hernia. I went into general surgery because its well, general. Based on my experience thus far, I would recommend Shouldice to those who are considering it. Thank you. He has no idea why or how it happened but didnt feel he really cared. I wonder if a nerve block might be the answer. If that is the case, I would rather stay in NYC but I guess I will have to make the trip to find out. I wonder what steps should I take once Im ready to see a new surgeon in Ontario? Your kidding yourself trying to talk anyone into not going here for a repair Both the surgeons i had had well over 10000 repairs and the first one was nearing 30000. This makes anyones numbers on hernia repair difficult to interpret, but the Shouldices number in particular should be viewed with a grain of salt. You are right, there is not a lot of good information for women in your situation. So far no issues at all from the surgery or related to the reasons for the surgery. Often times it is our expectations that get us in trouble. Personally, I have a walnut sized umbilical hernia and am within the upper bounds of the ideal physical category. RobthinksIm going to Shouldice in 2 weeks. Large ventral/incisional hernia repair or complex abdominal wall reconstruction- different story. Also, I doubt if any teaching staff in state/public schools has many good things to say about private education, the reasons only too obvious. So this is a tricky situation. Following this summers logging and landscape work I will report the status of all three repaired hernias. Sounds like you are doing a great job informing yourself about your options and the risks which is great to hear. Hi. I know 2 other people who have gone up for repair both of which are now well over 30 years on the repair without issue also.. Take care safe travels. They have permanent audit staff and know their outcome details. I have an inguinal hernia which is more annoying than anything since I play a lot of sports (not painful), but more so I am afraid of chronic pain after the surgery. Shouldice Hospital is a great place to work. Ive not had thay bad but have had issues from mesh for 9 months. Patients are required to be within 20 % of their ideal body weight, and are refused surgery at the Shouldice if they do not meet this criteria or lose the weight. Thank you for putting so much valuable information over here. I wanted to provide an update on my above comment and how my recovery has gone. During your examination, your surgeon may recommend that you lose weight before your hernia repair. Care and service do not stop once you leave Shouldice Hospital. But sometimes recurrences do happen. The "first" reduction in Tq is much greater!) Shouldice consult was Feb 8/2022 and I was booked in for June 2022 surgery that same day. Oddly general surgeons have recommended neurectomy though the pain clinic doctors I saw were highly against this type of procedure. Princess of Wales Theatre Royal Alexandra Theatre CAA Ed Mirvish TheatreCAA Theatre, 7750 Bayview Avenue,Thornhill, Ontario,Canada L3T 4A3View Map, Tel: 905-889-1125 Fax: 905-889-4216 Canada: 1-800-291-7750 U.S./International: 1-855-328-3423 postoffice@shouldice.com, Shouldice Hospital is committed to excellence in serving all patients including people with disabilities.Learn More. I would love to see some frequency distributions for Shouldice repairs vs inpatient time and time back to work. Three delicious meals every day, plus an evening snack, An exercise program specifically designed to speed the recovery of hernia patients, Professional advice for a healthy recovery, Access to on-site massage therapy (extra charges apply). See more So five days in hospital must be better than no days in hospital, right? It seems you did your research thoroughly and are maybe one of the unfortunate ones. I agree with John. Meaning the hernia comes back, requiring a second repair. Hello Justin. What happened to good doctors? Pain clinics are full of patients who have had open mesh repairs. I am quite sore, I am bruised from my left hip bone to my scrotum including everything in between. Ill take my chances with mesh next time all day long. Is the mesh currently being used the same product that has been on the Toronto news where they move around internally after coming loose? For a reduction in u from 0.90 to 0.80 on the x-axis, find the associated reduction in wait time Tq (on the y-axis). You are correct, we should have much better reporting systems than we do. Realistically, I am 50, 57 and 163 pounds, am I really going to lose 30 pounds and keep it off for the rest of my life? At this point I am out $980.00, I am more sore than I was at the same time following two mesh repairs, the in-hospital conditions/regimen were not as conducive to recovery as being at home. Choose your surgeon carefully. Somehow he would be entitled to weeks of paid leave with the hospital option due to healing times for their style of treatment whereas with the Shouldice option hed be back at work in a few days. Please mention Shouldice Hospital when you make your reservations. The staff were unfailingly courteous, even when under all-out attack by the annoying. But ask yourselves this: is it really that important a year later if you slept in an uncomfortable bed for a few days if you have no chronic pain or ever have to worry about developing it? I would think you could fix it now and get pregnant right away without worry. Do not use mesh, It can or will disintegrate in time like me and a friend too. Leave jewellery and other valuables at home. Whether that fear of mesh is warranted, I do not know. My hernia is fixed and I have a verbal confirmation that I could lift weights directly after surgery. Our specially trained surgical teams perform over 7, 000 hernia repairs every year, with an unparalleled track record . The hypochondriac insisting on stronger pain meds and special priveleges to the I dont need pain meds tough guy. I will miss the black squirrels. Myself, and others who are wary of mesh, are reacting to the very real possibility of chronic severe pain, and other complications like erosion, migration, and neuroma that can come from mesh. Sometimes this cost is paid out by private insurance companies if the patient has a health benefits plan, or by the patients themselves. Having to go in the day before surgery and staying 4 nights seemed odd in this day and age. You share good times with the people you meet there. I have been wearing the orthosis for six years. ( I know I already said that but they were really that bad). For Ontario residents, the Shouldice procedure is covered except for the cost of the semi-private room which is covered by many insurance plans. As for my health state, today is two weeks and I am still having significant pain from the muscle lump. And yes, Shouldice cherrypicks their cases, perhaps because they can. The Hospital was founded in 1945 and performs over 7000 hernia repair operations a year. I think the most recent data is from 2012 and shows a higher failure rate at Shouldice than mesh. It could be scar tissue or it could be the actual implant rubbing on the nerve. Prior to your visit, you are encouraged to complete and submit aMedical Questionnaire on my.shouldice.com. Integrate PMS with your healthcare information system. This makes any numbers they publish about their recurrence rates completely out of touch with the reality of what myself and other general surgeons are dealing with in our practices. Critiques are always welcome because it can make people think out of the box. I would love to see their numbers as well, but that is unlikely to happen soon. Why is recurrence the worst that can happen here? I got three different answers from Shouldice on how long I should wait to try and conceive after surgery (4 weeks, 3 months and 1 year). I believe every patient has to make their own decision. I dont know what the exact policy is on inpatient stay at Shouldice, the website said at least one day pre op, and an unspecified number post op. Hi, I am the diabetic obese patient with an abdominal hernia. First scheduled patients moved to pre-surgery prep. I live in West GTA if theres any way for you to recommend me to be looked at by either yourself or a trusted colleague. I would also, I hope, be getting angry calls from our hospitals administrators asking what the hell I was doing keeping patients in hospital for so long after such a simple procedure. There is nothing spectacular about this facility. Femoral hernias are tricky sometimes whether mesh is used or not. There are some awful stories out there. Not true.If they Identify an Hernia with no bump, they will ask for repair it. I came up to Shouldice from the States not because of concern over use of mesh but because of concern over general anesthesia which I was told I would have in the States. The Shouldice Clinic is a private clinic operating in the Toronto area which has been open for decades. The beds were terrible. I think I am going to stick with a repair by a general surgeon at my local hospital. Shouldice refused to accommodate my disability. You may be regret waiting some but better to wait an added week or month than have chronic pain as I do. Mesh is known to have a potential side effect of chronic, possibly serious pain, and potential difficult mesh removal later which leaves the person changed for the worse. That is frustrating for you. Posted on September 8, 2011 by Ewen. The other day I split a bush cord of firewood and my shoulder was sore but not my groin. It has been repairing hernias for decades. I hike a lot, mtn bike, lift >100# items, etc. I hear that the wait time is up to a few years for the surgery itself. I agree. Would you go to a dentist or have any other surgicla procedure done without knowing a thing about the surgeon? Just frustrating and agree with you on the best I later found out that my friends younger brother had a repair done at the small hospital and has no complications after 8 months with mesh and I went to the one in the area that is considered the best Ive just come to expect the worse I think I have a cloud that just fallows me around :p LOL. Taxi from Toronto to Shouldice Hernia Centre. To you doctors and surgeons; I do wonder if you feel any guilt for installing these meshs in your otherwise healthy patients I certainly couldnt do it from what I now know. Can you share any more details about your experiences if you dont mind. By the time my son was 10 and we moved to Peterborough his hernia was the size of a pineapple infact it looked like he had a bag in his pants! The wait times were significantly higher than normal. Even with insurance in the USA, high deductibles and co-insurance means hernia surgery is still a very hefty expenditure well into the thousands, it could easily be the price of a Shouldice repair, but performed by someone with not nearly the expertise. As for tension free vs not, as I said in my blog, standard of care for most institutions is tension free (ie using mesh). I have seen these numbers elsewhere also. Update been 8 months out and little to no change in the pain and other complications. I also saw the ambulance chasing lawyer ads in the US regarding mesh failures. And while I agree with you on many of the double-standard, private taxing points surrounding Shouldice, I disagree that general surgery or mesh related surgery is in any way a better option. It was originally founded during World War 2 to allow for young men to have their hernias repaired before going off to fight. The surgeon recommended TEP and from research that seemed to be the most likely not to cause chronic pain and based on the surgeons bio and reviews he seemed to specialize in laparoscopic. Absolutely not. Improving patient satisfaction with wait times Nursing. 65 Minthorn BoulevardThornhill, Ontario905-707-65332 miles from the hospital. Bus operators. Is this a factor? Update to the above. Unlike most hospitals, delicious meals are prepared fresh in our dining room daily, providing the healthy nutrition you need to promote healing. Open. Ive contacted Shouldice and would much rather prefer not having a foreign object inside of me, especially given that this is my first ever surgery. I do everything I want without restricting myself. I just had my inguinal hernia repaired at Shouldice. Thanks. There is a small hard spot just under the belly button but it is slowly shrinking, I was told this could take some time. I do not feel Shouldice does an honest job of their success rate, but they are not the only place or surgeon to do that for sure. My husband was asked to lose weight for the surgery but still was not skinny. We now have detailed records on more than 400,000 patients and maintain one of the most comprehensive database on hernia repair in the world. When you come to our clinic for an examination, Shouldice staff will welcome you and arrange for a personal consultation with one of our experienced hernia surgeons. I hope that is helpful. 3. shouldice provides hernia repair with a short hospital stay. And it IS true that mesh design has improved not just materials, lighter, thinner, for instance Titanium coatings to reduce foreign body reactions, so problems 2 or 3 years ago may be referring to old technology. And I agree that we need to have tracking of surgical outcomes to verify the success of various techniques, whoever does them and whereever they are done, but making everybody do emergency & other more involved surgeries doesnt address that. I would encourage you to have your father see his family doctor to refer to the hospital and surgeon which are closest to you. So the idea that you think there some sort of mesh industry monopoly is concerning to me. Shouldice also offers a variety of services to help you prepare for your hernia operation and improve your recovery. I would like to request if you please could comment on about the Desarda technique. Procedure I briefly looked at the website, and I would have the same concerns as with the Shouldice, namely that recurrence rates for hernia repairs without mesh would be unacceptably high unless in a highly selected (skinny) population in North America. To decrease the text size, press and hold down the command key on a Mac or the windows key on PC, then press the minus (-) key. The office staff takes care of business very nicely, very personable, walking you through every step of the way. Having said that, the risk of recurrence is much higher with umbilical and epigastric hernias in pregnancy than with groin hernias. But then you will have had two surgeries instead of one, with the risks that entails. I had two hernias repaired in November last year. SHOULDICE HOSPITAL - 33 Photos - 7750 Bayview Avenue, Thornhill, ON - Yelp Auto Services Shouldice Hospital 3 reviews Unclaimed Hospitals Closed 9:30 AM - 3:00 PM See hours Write a review Add photo Photos & videos See all 33 photos See All 33 You Might Also Consider Sponsored Centres For Health And Healing 16.4 km away from Shouldice Hospital Besides the fact that it looks weird, my only concern is that given that Im only 42, the hernia is just going to get worse better to repair the pothole now than to wait for an emergency in the future. Here is a run down of my thoughts. I got a colleague to do it, with mesh, and a general anesthetic, as day surgery, in one of our local hospitals. Anyhow, one piece of overwhelming evidence in support of going to Shouldice that I found is in the Can. There is a limit of 2 visitors per patient. To increase the text size, press and hold down the command key on a Mac or the windows key on PC, then press the plus (+) key. Also, you didnt say if your two hernias were repaired laproscopically or open. I would ask your family doctor for a referral to a general surgeon who does hernias from incisions to discuss the pros and cons of a repair in your situation. That is not my opinion, it is just a proven over and over medical fact. My concern is with the use of mesh on a growing teenage boy. It may be in part an attempt to keep a surgeon ratings list from being established, as patients are not allowed to pick a surgeon. Here are some numbers to call if you would like to book tickets while youre in the Toronto area: These suggestions are provided only as a courtesy to our patients and their guests. Reilly's, a disused bar, was barricaded up by the rebels, and it . Train operators. He is based in New York and covered by my insurance. However there is more to it. I have constant pain of some kind from stabbing to just dull along with foreign body sensation. Ive tried to get surgery twice. The last one before going there was a laproscopic surgery done by a cocky 40-something that failed before he even left the hospital & then turned into a fistuala which the surgeon was in denial about for months & could have killed him. Thanks for your blog. I had an inguinal hernia repair at Shouldice 4 days ago. Personally, put in a holding pattern until surgery in the afternoon. There are many reasons why mesh is used and many people do fine with it. This should be broken down into smaller samples to isolate by type of procedure or severity. Hernia repairs can be done without a general anesthetic at other locations as well- I routinely do mine without a GA. I have contacted the operating hospital who caused the issue and theyve decided they do not want to assist in the issue any further. If you dont have a very classic bulging abdominal or groin hernia, they are not going to operate. NDP Leader Jack Layton acknowledged yesterday he visited a private Ontario medical clinic to treat a hernia in the mid-1990s, but dismissed suggestions it undercut his credibility as a public . I just left Shouldice hospital after a hernia repair. Inguinal surgery 4 days ago at Shouldice performed by surgeon with 10,000+ hernia surgeries performed. Could you take a closer look at the Desarda technique and make some comments in the same way you did with the Shouldice techinique? 4. shouldice offers a 4 day vacation. It was recently taken over by a private company and is no longer in the hands of the original Shouldice family. I went for consultation at Shouldice in October 2013 for consultation regarding an umbilical hernia repair.